Why Queermergent?

My name is Adele and i blog at Existential Punk. i have been a part of the Emergent conversation both in the UK and the USA for the past 10 or so years. After years of white-knuckling and repressing my sexuality through a Religious Right conservatism, charismatic, fundamentalist Christianity that lived by literal interpretations of the Bible in dogmatic ways, Reparative Therapy and ex-gay ministries, where the mantra became, “Pray Away the Gay”, and years of depression and suicidal tendencies, i FINALLY came to terms with my sexuality and G-D. Through a very long journey with many peaks and valleys, i decided, through much counsel and prayer that reconciling my same-sex attractions and my Christian faith was a reality where i could exist.

Here is a brief summary of my journey:

Twenty years ago this month I had a ‘born-again’ experience at a charismatic church where an American missionary to S. Africa was speaking. Hell was one of the topics being preached, so at the end of the evening I went forward for the altar call to ‘receive’ Jesus into my heart. I did this because I was afraid of going to hell. Thus, I was purchasing my ‘fire insurance’. I attended Pat Robertson’s graduate school in Virginia Beach, Regent University, to obtain an M.Div so I could be a youth pastor. I began to seriously look at my life-long struggle of same-sex attractions. The school and my therapist along with my charismatic church back home always communicated that being gay was a sin, a choice, and those who actively pursue it will go to hell. I was shell-shocked and confused. I attempted suicide and spent a month at two different times in a psychiatric hospital. I even did reparative therapy and attended ex-gay ministries to pray away the gay, which never worked. In 1997 I moved to Los Angeles and began living a double life as a Christian and as a gay woman. I began to read Brian McLaren and found him writing things I had felt inside but was very afraid to express outwardly to anyone. In 2002 I went to Northern Ireland to do a DTS with YWAM. I met the great Peter Rollins and we developed a great friendship. His teachings and writings on postmodernism and Christianity radically shaped how I viewed my faith. I could no longer hang onto certainty with regards to interpreting scripture. There were more important things in kingdom living than where we go after we pass from this world to the next, like poverty, AIDS, the environment, etc. About 2.5 years ago I FINALLY came to terms with my sexuality. I found peace with myself and with God. Coming out was fairly painless with the exception of a few people who still think I am in sin and going to hell. I no longer hold this view and I am ok if people think that about me. I hate labels as they are so limiting, but are sometimes a necessary evil. After being a right wing Republican most of my voting life, I now consider myself an independent that leans more liberal than moderate.

Queermergent was created today in order to create a safe space for those Christ-followers who identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersexed, Questioning, and Queer to partake in mature discussions regarding the LGBTQ community of faith within a 21st Century, postmodern, emergent/emerging church context. Queermergent is also a space for those that are not from the LGBTQ community but desire to understand us more, ask questions, and contribute to the queer conversation in a life-affirming way. As we journey along together we will hopefully be changed for the better. Thanks be to G-D!

  1. January 15, 2009 at 3:10 AM | #1

    Thank you for starting this discussion. I think that it is a very important dialogue for people of faith.

  2. January 15, 2009 at 3:24 AM | #2

    I’m so happy to see a blog site like this. I truly appreciate you sharing your story! Thank you. I added you to my blogroll… Looking forward to hearing more from you!

  3. January 15, 2009 at 3:27 AM | #3

    Adele: I look forward to following and joining in the conversation here. Kudos to you for taking the initiative and creating a space for this very important dialog to happen. It will be very interesting to see how it goes.

    Best to you,
    J

  4. January 15, 2009 at 4:09 AM | #4

    @pastorofdisaster,Thanks for stopping by and for your encouraging words.

    @Steven Burleson, Thank you for commenting and for the add to your blogroll.

    @Joan Ball, THANK YOU for your support, my friend. Would LOVE for you to contribute sometime!

    Warm Regards,

    Existential Punk

  5. January 15, 2009 at 4:30 AM | #5

    Adele,

    Thanks for being willing to put yourself out there like this, for sharing your story, and for creating this space for this conversation to happen. I pray this will be a great forum for thoughtful, gracious, life-affirming, God-honoring discussion.

    Shalom.

  6. Kristin
    January 15, 2009 at 4:40 AM | #6

    God Loves me and I’m a lesbian and a Christian. I Am OK. He knows my heart and motives. I’m good with trusting Him to use that omnipotent/omniscience mind of his to deal with me justly. It took a while to get to that point and I really value the fact that you have chosen to give this discussion a place to happen.

  7. January 15, 2009 at 4:49 AM | #7

    @Steve, THANK YOU for your love and support. i’d love for you and your wife to each contribute. i also wish to see a group of us queers included at future emergent events for talks and discussions/conversations. i am totally willing to head up a queer forum and anythingelse i can do to further this conversation along.

    @Kristin, THANK YOU for visiting and sharing your journey.May you continue to be blessed!

    Warm Regards,
    EP

  8. January 15, 2009 at 4:56 AM | #8

    i will be following this conversation with warmth in my heart for ppl to find peace and will look forward to sharing this with many i know who have not come to such a secure resting place as you. thank you for this holy space.

  9. January 15, 2009 at 5:07 AM | #9

    David,

    THANK YOU! Please feel free to join us at the table any time!

    Warm Regards,

    EP

  10. January 15, 2009 at 5:10 AM | #10

    thanks for taking this on. blessings on the conversation here.

  11. January 15, 2009 at 5:19 AM | #11

    Thanx Julie!i look forward to you joining us!

    Warm Regards!

    EP

  12. January 15, 2009 at 5:43 AM | #12

    But Leviticus says… heh heh, just kidding. You’ve got guts my friend – jumping right into the middle of the fray, as usual! Someone’s gotta. I’ve been reading Peterson Toscano’s blog as well. Thanks again for that link.

    Adele, looking forward to reading more. Bless you!
    Peter

  13. January 15, 2009 at 6:11 AM | #13

    LOL!!! Well, you will be joining us shortly in this fray, Pete! Looking forwardto you contributing. It will be interesting for sure.

  14. Pete Rollins
    January 15, 2009 at 8:35 AM | #14

    Adele… I love your passion and courage. You never sit back and think, ‘what if’, you get up and makes things happen. Know that you have lots of support and respect and people covering your back.

  15. January 15, 2009 at 8:38 AM | #15

    Pete,

    Thank you! That means so much coming from you! i really appreciate your love and support.

    You were a HUGE part of my coming to terms with my sexuality and reconciling it with G-D. i am forever indebted to you, my dear friend. THANK YOU!

    Adele

  16. January 15, 2009 at 10:59 AM | #16

    Adele,

    Thanks for you story and this site. I have a similar story, except I’ve never been able to resolve the tension between my lives. Even living in a Christian community that allows me to be who I am, my internal conflict seems as eternal as God Himself. I look forward to the discussion on this site.

    Rick

  17. January 15, 2009 at 1:05 PM | #17

    Rick,

    Welcome and i look forward to you joining the conversation and sharingyour internal conflict with us more.Grace and peace to you!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  18. January 15, 2009 at 1:09 PM | #18

    Count us in. You can put our website link up if you’d like. http://www.houseforall.org we are a queer inclusive emerging church in Denver.

  19. January 15, 2009 at 1:34 PM | #19

    Adele,
    Blessings on your new venture. Your directness and authenticity are refreshing. You have have opened up a safe space for the Spirit to work and all can be truly welcomed.
    Don

  20. January 15, 2009 at 2:11 PM | #20

    Adele,

    It’s wonderful to see a forum for openness and discussion involving both the LGBTQ community AND heterosexuals. Oftentimes, heterosexuals feel “out of the loop” in these conversations. Though I have not arrived (or ever will?) in my understanding of all things LGBTQ, I look forward to reading more from you. My prayers are with you.

    Evan

  21. January 15, 2009 at 2:14 PM | #21

    Also, I would like to apologize and ask forgiveness from you (and others) for any evangelicals (including myself in times past) for taking “shots” at the LGBTQ community. Much of it comes from a lack of love; and my apologies for any heartache that was put upon you, as if to suggest that you were any “less-human,” etc. because of your sexuality.

  22. January 15, 2009 at 2:30 PM | #22

    Nadia,

    Thank you for being an all inclusive church.That is so refreshing to hear, especially in emerging church circles!

    i will add your link and thanks! Please add us as well!

    Warm Regards,
    Adele

  23. January 15, 2009 at 2:32 PM | #23

    Don,

    Thank you for visiting and a hearty welcome to you! Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. i have found being direct and authentic are part of the real Adele and to be any other way would be cheating myself.

    Adele

  24. January 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM | #24

    Evan,

    Thanks for your comment. It is so important that people like you who feel out of the loop in these conversations and want to be included have a safe space to explore your questions without fear of being lambasted. Please, join in and ask away. Not sure i will have all the answers but i will try.

    Warm Regards,
    Adele

  25. January 15, 2009 at 2:39 PM | #25

    Nadia,

    Thanks for being an inclusive emerging church! How refreshing! i will add your linkas wel asi hope you will add queermergent.

    Look forward to our future conversations!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  26. January 15, 2009 at 2:46 PM | #26

    Evan,

    i accept your apology and forgive you! Thanks as this is one place to begin! Your honesty is beautiful and i really appreciate it!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  27. Jeff Hurt
    January 15, 2009 at 6:27 PM | #27

    Adele:

    What a great story and message. I’m reminded of when Jesus said, “…and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” Finding your truth finally set you free. I’m sure that was a difficult struggle as people tried to tell you what your truth was.

    The faith of God’s people is so much deeper than some professional church types understand. Church leaders argue about doctrine, theology, rules, power, sexuality–searching for right opinion, the last word, like so many children fighting over a ball.

    Do these combatants ever see into the hearts of the people? This is truth. This expression of faith that you’ve written, shared and we’ve read–this is truth. It’s not about doctrine, who’s right, or who wins. It’s about a wounded soul reaching for light. How dare we ignore such might, such remembrance in our self-serving quest for right opinion.

    Thank you for sharing that truth and may others see that depth, that amazing depth born from suffering. A depth grounded in faith and an outpouring of the soul. When a writer such as you has walked inside God’s wondrous acts and seen truth, what can we say? Sometimes it’s a sigh too deep for words.

    Thank you.

    PS…we’ve had similar journeys. I grew up in a faith-filled home in a charismatic church. The one difference I had was that my parents taught me that I was a child of God. God made me who I am and accepted me as I am. They also taught me not to judge and to try walking in other people’s shoes before being quick to condemn, even though I often heard a different message on Sunday’s from the pulpit. I went to a religious university, got an education and theology degree, went overseas with YWAM, spent time in full-time ministry. During my college years, my Bible and Theology professors challenged me to understand, embrace and articulate my beliefs and their prodding helped me reconcile my Christianity with being gay. While it was a conservative, Pentecostal style college, it is where I learned that my truth, God’s truth, would set me free.

  28. January 15, 2009 at 6:41 PM | #28

    I just wanted to say I’m glad to see this. I think this is a group that can be very beneficial to those in the emergent discussion and beyond.

    Peace.
    Adam

  29. January 15, 2009 at 7:12 PM | #29

    Jeff,

    hanks for sharing some of your story.Where did you do YWAM and for how long?

    You said something beautiful and i want to thank you for saying this:”Thank you for sharing that truth and may others see that depth, that amazing depth born from suffering. A depth grounded in faith and an outpouring of the soul. When a writer such as you has walked inside God’s wondrous acts and seen truth, what can we say? Sometimes it’s a sigh too deep for words.” i love that sometimes it’s a sigh too deep for words. WOW, very profound!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  30. January 15, 2009 at 7:13 PM | #30

    Adam,

    Thank you and i look forward to your contributions. Thanks for stopping by!

    All the best,

    Adele

  31. Jeff Hurt
    January 15, 2009 at 7:32 PM | #31

    Adele: I did YWAM back in 1981 in Altensteig, Germany for 4 months.

  32. January 15, 2009 at 8:37 PM | #32

    Jeff,

    i did YWAM in 2002 in Northern Ireland for 3 months, which then extended to 5 months with an outreach for 10 weeks to Romania. i then went back on staff for a 2 year commitment but only completed 1 year due to my health situation.

    Adele

  33. January 15, 2009 at 9:59 PM | #33

    Adele,

    So grateful for you doin’ this thing. A lurker and edge-dweller I am, but fully can’t say how glad this is. Brilliant. Thank you.

  34. January 15, 2009 at 11:11 PM | #34

    well done adele. you know i’ll be up in here. hoping for a welcoming demeanor from all commentators :-)

  35. January 15, 2009 at 11:57 PM | #35

    Adele, I have been longing for something like Queermergent for over five years. Thank you, so very much, for this. I’m really looking forward to seeing it develop and evolve, and also to meeting other LGBTQ emergent conversers and fellow church geeks around here! =)

  36. January 16, 2009 at 2:13 AM | #36

    Rachel,

    Even lurkers and edge-dwellers are welcome here! Glad to have you around!

    Best Regards,
    Adele

  37. January 16, 2009 at 2:15 AM | #37

    Drew,

    Thank you! Maybe you would consider contributing sometime?

    Best Regards,

    Adele

  38. January 16, 2009 at 8:20 AM | #38

    Adele – I am so grateful that you are willing to do this. I appreciate you sharing your story and am so sorry for the things you had to go through. Perhaps this safe place will make it a little easier for some others.

  39. January 16, 2009 at 10:27 AM | #39

    Grace,

    THANK YOU! Welcome!

    Best Regards,

    Adele

  40. January 18, 2009 at 9:29 PM | #40

    Wonderful site, thank you…I’ll add you to my blogroll so my eight readers can enjoy you also;)

  41. January 18, 2009 at 9:55 PM | #41

    Jennifer,

    Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Look forward to your returning and entering in the conversation. Also, Thanks for the add to your blogroll as it is MUCH appreciated.

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  42. January 18, 2009 at 10:23 PM | #42

    thanks for initiating this, adele. i have nothing to add, but i’m looking forward to listening to the voices that will fill this space.

    god bless

  43. January 18, 2009 at 11:00 PM | #43

    David,

    Thanks for visiting and for your encouraging words. Much appreciated for sure! Thanks for listening.

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  44. January 18, 2009 at 11:06 PM | #44

    where do you personlly stand on celibacy. is it uneeded, unrealist?

  45. January 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM | #45

    Grey,

    Thanks for your question. Remember, i do not have all the answers or have i worked through my thoughts on different things completely, but i think celibacy is for those who choose to be celibate. Our society has taken on the idea from the Bible that sex should be between two married people. i no longer personally believe people have to be married to have sex. i don’t have a theological answer to base this view on, as it is where i have come to in my life. i do think sleeping around, whether queer or straight, is not very fulfilling. If two people are committed to one another, i believe there is nothing wrong with expressing that love in a a sexual context. Times and cultures change.

    Anyone else care to weigh inon this question of celibacy?

    Adele

  46. January 19, 2009 at 1:39 AM | #46

    Adele,

    MANY thanks for establishing this space! Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. And I’d love to explore other online social networking possibilities (a Facebook group? Ning?) to further communication. I think there are a lot more of us Queermergents than we know. I remember when I proposed a Queer meetup at Soularize in 2000, and I thought people were going to pass out. :D

  47. January 19, 2009 at 1:46 AM | #47

    Dylan,

    i would Love it if you would contribute some times with posts. i want guest bloggers to write and interact with people here. A ning group is already in existence and i will be posting about that shortly once everything is worked out. If you want to create a Queermergent facebook group, have at it! That would be great!

    i have had much positive response to this and see how it is really needed.

    Thanks for your support!

    Adele

  48. David Weintraub
    January 19, 2009 at 6:45 AM | #48

    Adele, it’s wonderful to see this. We are a small open and affirming UCC in Virginia, trying to do our small part in changing the terms of the conversation. I look forward to connecting with others.

    As far as the celibacy issue, I would say that actions speak louder than marriage licenses issued by the state.

    Peace and blessings,

    David

  49. January 19, 2009 at 11:14 AM | #49

    David,

    Welcome and thanks for commenting! How did you find the blog?

    Where in VA are you located? We currently live in Richmond. Is your church in an emergent context?

    Thanks also for your thoughts on the celibacy issue.

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  50. Paul Fromberg
    January 19, 2009 at 2:05 PM | #50

    Adele,
    Thanks for setting up the all-inclusive queermergent. I love the look and look forward to the conversation.
    Paul (currently in Ethiopia)

  51. January 19, 2009 at 3:36 PM | #51

    Paul,

    Thank you and welcome! Looking forward to your participation!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  52. January 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM | #52

    I am not an emergent preacher who would be considered “conservative”. But several years ago God began to open my heart to the plight of the gay community, and especially to the gay community who believed in Christ. I have a couple of times corresponded with Tony Campalo on the issue although we would not be in total agreement.

    Your challenge will be to accept and forgive others who you believe are wrongfully condemning you. And will your sexual orientation be your focus or will Christ be the primacy of your journey? And how will you understand people like me who show love and grace but never will completely agree with your stand?

    This is a post that I sent to Campalo last year, please read the entire article, it may help all of us.

    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/04/inconvenient-truth-matt.html

  53. January 21, 2009 at 5:45 PM | #53

    “Must this sinner present himself with the sanctification process already in gear before he can follow Christ?”

    No, but if one has been regenerated they are willing to forsake their sin; whatever it might be, not to try and defend it.

  54. January 21, 2009 at 8:41 PM | #54

    “No, but if one has been regenerated they are willing to forsake their sin; whatever it might be, not to try and defend it.”

    Then no one is regenerate because everyone in some way sins and defends it. It may not be homosexuality, but it can be greed, pride, hedonism, judgment, self righteousness, prayerlessness, and a laundry list of others that indict us all.

    And what was the sin that condemned us all? Murder? Abortion? Homosexuality? Nope, it was one seemingly minor act of disobedience. Can a person sincerely enter God’s grace through Jesus Christ without future criteria essential to its authenticity? If so, it is not grace.

  55. adhunt
    January 22, 2009 at 10:22 AM | #55

    Adele,

    Despite the fact that if push ever came to shove I would be on the traditional side of a homosexuality conversation, there can be no question at all that the Church has completely abused gay Christians and I think that this site is fantastic and that what you are doing is brave. I look forward to keeping up on this conversation.

    Ken,
    Perhaps you could leave?

  56. January 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM | #56

    At 9PM tomorrow on the Lifetime channel there is a TV movie called “Prayers for Bobby”. It is a true story of how a young man tells his mother that he is gay, however because her church rejected him and because she desired to protect him from the visciousness some Christians project, she herself rejects him. He later commits suicide.

    I feel strongly that the church has not been actively seeking a redemptive approach to people who were born with same sex attractions. I do not have all the answers, however if we do not ask the questions and if we remain entrenched we will never arrive at any redemptive outreach.

  57. January 23, 2009 at 5:03 PM | #57

    If the Bible says it’s wrong, it’s wrong. It can be a strong thing, but many heterosexuals who are married have urges they deny.

    I appreciate your forum.

    When we start ignoring the Bible’s clear instructions, we are in peril.

    Far better to be someone with thoughts and struggles that one takes to the Lord than to decide that well, I can’t help it.

    Thank you for letting me have my say.

    He is an awesome God.

  58. January 24, 2009 at 1:18 AM | #58

    Adele~

    I embrace you.

    Do you know that the Hebrew meaning of your name is “Noble”?

    What a lovely, convergent confirmation of you!

    May I humbly submit some advice?

    I see that as long as you and the precious people who convene here put the emergence of Jesus the Love of God ahead of any other cause—no matter how worthy—
    well, keep Jesus first and all else will be a foregone conclusion.

    I am sooo thankful that He loves us all with an everlasting love!

    Kelly Deppen

  59. January 24, 2009 at 3:30 AM | #59

    “Ken,
    Perhaps you could leave?”

    I might as well seeing as the tolerant one here is deleting my comments.

    So much for honest dialogue. Just remember that next time you’re whinig about “homophobes.”

    See you on the battlefield.

  60. adhunt
    January 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM | #60

    Ken,

    I meant only if you felt the need to continue in hostility, which, apparantly, you do.

  61. January 24, 2009 at 4:56 PM | #61

    adhunt,

    I’ve hardly been hostile until I was censored. The comment that was deleted politely shared a conterpoint to Rick Frueh’s comment.

    By the way, he and I know each other. I had clearly said that I judge no one for how they choose to live their lives.

    I’ve also pointed out as former profressional musician in L.A. I have had many gay friennds and their lifestyle doesn’t bother me in the least.

    So, how in the world is that possibly construed as being hostile. I don’t at all fit the stereo-type of one who is “anti-gay”; because, I’m not.

  62. adhunt
    January 24, 2009 at 5:06 PM | #62

    Ken,

    If you are being censored, as I am not the site moderator, then one can only guess that perhaps what you are saying or how is not in keeping with the rules and goals of this site.

    I have commented on one too many blogs to know that comment “back-and-forths” can be rather fruitless, so let us not pick and nit over what is and is not hostile.

    It seems to me that Adele is gracious enough to allow dissent, otherwise it would not be a “conversation,” so when your comments begin showing up again then I will agree that you are not being hostile.

    I never said you were “anit-gay” now did I?

  63. January 24, 2009 at 5:13 PM | #63

    Ken’s comments are much less viscious that most from the conservative wing. I am someone who sees compassion, but in order for you to let your voice be heard you will have to lovingly dialogue with those who you might consider “anti-gay”. I do understand refusing to dialogue with virulent and hateful people, but Ken does not fall in that category.

    There are many blogs who will call names and not show you even the respect of a human being. But there are others who do not share your view but will engage in a respectful way.

  64. adhunt
    January 24, 2009 at 5:14 PM | #64

    Consider me chastened

  65. January 24, 2009 at 5:31 PM | #65

    Perhaps the point of this is that Queermergent is not a place to DEBATE homosexuality but rather, as the header clearly states, “An Emergent Safehouse for the LGBTQ Community and All Interested People Seeking Understanding.” So, I would say to Ken Silva and others coming here to debate and “talk back,” this is not the place for it. There are plenty of other spaces online to debate theology about homosexuality.

    I think Adele has every right to protect this space as a “city of refuge” (to use that Old Testament metaphor) for those who have already been told by a thousand evangelicals like Ken that they are not “saved,” that they are “going to hell,” “God hates fags,” etc. They’ve heard it ALL before. So, if you have any respect and love for your fellow human beings (whether you consider them “Christians” or not), please take your rebukes and chastisements elsewhere. That would be the classy, respectful, truly loving thing to do. I know Ken (and others like him) will disagree about “what the truly loving thing” is. That’s just a huge point of disagreement.

    This is 2009. Gay Christians should be able to have a public website to talk about their lives and struggles and questions of faith and life WITHOUT being “debated” relentlessly by those who do not consider them Christians, who condemn their sexual orientation, etc. I would hate to see Adele and others forced back into the virtual “closet” because they can’t have this conversation safely in the open right here.

    Adele can block Ken (and others) as much as she wants, IMO, and he can cry “intolerant” all he wants. But that doesn’t change the history of intolerance and hate that Ken represents (whether he has gay friends from the L.A. music scene or not! ;-)

    Ken, this is for you: I’m absolutely tired of your campaign to tear your fellow Christians down. For the love of God, please find something more worthwhile to spend your life and time on. There are a billion other websites where you can be a hero by defending these beliefs and “preaching the truth.” There is respectful disagreement here. You’re not going to change that. I’ll reiterate the request, “maybe you could just leave.” Thanks for prayerfully considering this request.

  66. January 24, 2009 at 5:42 PM | #66

    “Adele can block Ken (and others) as much as she wants, IMO, and he can cry “intolerant” all he wants.”

    1) Absolutely she can; 2) I’m not “crying” intolerant, because 3) to charge others of being intolerant while censoring comments is being intolerant.

  67. January 24, 2009 at 5:51 PM | #67

    Steve K.,

    You the kingdom journalist who posts at the Emergent Village blog?

  68. January 24, 2009 at 5:51 PM | #68

    Ken,

    When are you going to open up comments on your network of anti-Emergent websites so I can come over there and bug you relentlessly?

    Right. You’re not going to do it. Because you’re not interested in having a conversation with us. You’re not interested in “understanding.”

    Until you open up comments on your sites for us to give you feedback, Ken, I think Adele should just delete all of your comments here. Turnabout is fair play.

  69. January 24, 2009 at 5:52 PM | #69

    If I was gay I would definitely feel the same way. I understand as much as can be expected from my perspective. But I still believe that a loving and confident approach may disarm some and frustrate others. If understanding is what you seek, it may be very productive within the confines of unpleasant views.

    Again, this comes from a straight person. :)

  70. January 24, 2009 at 5:53 PM | #70

    Steve,

    As I’ve told Adele before on her other blog, to group Fred Phelps’ insane “God Hates Fags” rants to evangelicals is just plain wrong.

    I believe homosexuality is asin, HOWEVER, I love Adele as a sister in Christ. I do agree that this isn’t the forum for the discussion that’s going on.

    I’ve never “hated fags” or shown that type of attitude, BUT I would consider myself an evnagelical because I spend a good portion of my time talking and engaging those that don’t know Christ…evangelizing.

    -Chris

  71. January 24, 2009 at 6:53 PM | #71

    BTW -

    I’m straight,
    No hate,
    And I’m in your face!

  72. January 24, 2009 at 7:04 PM | #72

    Steve K. – what was the distinguishing element of Christ’s ministry? What made history sit up and take notice? It was His non-retaliatory life, one that blessed His enemies and forgave those who unjustly persecuted Him.

    Anyone can respond in like kind, but it takes a sacrifice to respond as would He. I would consider returning good for evil, especially when all it entails are some gracious words on the internet. A small price to pay and the most spiritually effective way to have your voice be heard. :)

  73. January 24, 2009 at 8:55 PM | #73

    “Not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

    ~ Jerry Seinfeld

    Stay joyful, friends :)

    Kelly Deppen

  74. January 24, 2009 at 9:21 PM | #74

    John, you said:
    “When we start ignoring the Bible’s clear instructions, we are in peril.”

    Wow, where to begin? I guess I have nowhere to speak from, because I have some tattoos. And I let my wife sleep in our bed when she’s menstrating. And I have a shirt with cotton/silk/synthetic weave. So enjoy heaven, because I’m pretty f*cked.

  75. January 25, 2009 at 4:11 AM | #75

    And while people debate over all kinds of trivia, there are millions who exist in much pain and confusion about much greater issues. I again have been moved in compassion for gay people. This came forth tonight. You may not agree with all of it but I pray you will receive it in the spirit in which I offer it.

    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2009/01/grace-for-gays-t-onight-as-i-watched.html

  76. Dave Sanabria
    January 27, 2009 at 2:33 PM | #76

    Adele,

    Thank you for your post. As a straight conservative Christian with liberal leanings (theologically and not politically) and I go to a conservative, Pentecostal, fundamentalist, Spirit-filled, walking-on-water, and casting out demons from under every rock Bible College (that is going to get this post banned).

    I appreciate you sharing your journey and wonder how many of my peers may be going through something similar. I have not taken a definitive stance on LGBTQ issues and am still open. I’m glad that there is an openness for this dialogue. In the meantime, there are more pressing issues in the world that I need to work on/pray for.

    Thanks

    P.S.
    Our mutual Friend says hello. (Jesus)

  77. January 27, 2009 at 8:37 PM | #77

    Dave,

    Thanks for sharing and for your honesty and openness to our community. Looking forward to more conversations.

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  78. January 27, 2009 at 9:13 PM | #78

    adhunt,

    THANKS for your kind words and partaking in the conversation in an honest way.

    Best Regards,

    Adele

  79. February 2, 2009 at 10:53 PM | #79

    Wow, this is a pretty awesome site you’ve started here EP. And as I quickly scrolled through your comments there was far less hate than I was anticipating… which is great.

    Please know that there are straight believers (like me!) who support and want to stand up for our gay/lesbian brothers and sisters.

    Thanks for putting yourself out there and creating this space.

    Godspeed,

    Nole

  80. February 3, 2009 at 12:26 AM | #80

    Nole,

    Thanks for stopping by and commenting! Welcome aboard and we appreciate your support.

    Yea, i created this as a safe space as there are plenty of other places people can push their anti-gay rhetoric. i moderate all comments and filter them.

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  81. Misty
    February 3, 2009 at 2:33 AM | #81

    Hi,
    Thanks for posting your story. I was raised in a conservative pentacostal church and am currently trying to heal from the pain that caused me. I consider myself questioning, and struggle everyday with trying to reconcile my faith with my sexuality. I am glad to finally find a place where others seem to understand.
    Thanks

  82. February 3, 2009 at 2:36 AM | #82

    Misty,

    Welcome and thank you for sharing a little about yourself. i hope you feel safe to share more. BTW, how did you find the blog?

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  83. Misty
    February 3, 2009 at 3:29 AM | #83

    Thanks for the reply. I found the blog through beliefnet.com.

  84. February 3, 2009 at 3:32 AM | #84

    Misty,

    That’s cool. It always fascinates me how people find my blogs. Most of the people who came here from Beliefnet said some pretty hurtful and mean-spirited things! Maybe you’d like to share more of your story sometime for a post? Always looking for good stories to share so we don’t always feel so alone!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  85. Misty
    February 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM | #85

    Adele,

    I can imagine the types of things some people would say. I would be willing to share my story sometime. And its always good to not feel so alone.

    Misty

  86. February 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM | #86

    Misty,

    Yea, it’s not too hard is it? Would love you to write up your story. That will be awesome!

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  87. February 3, 2009 at 7:16 PM | #87

    “Repression” is a clinical term–according to C.S. Lewis.
    I think you mean “suppression” which is entirely different, and a wise thing to do many, many times.

    Too many people associate discomfort with “harm”.

    But I would not be surprised if you were lost in the Exodus mire. For a while they were quite lost in that they promoted heterosexuality over holiness (i.e. obedience to God regardless of feelings).

    So many people had no real appreciation for true obedience and felt that they had to find a wife to be “healed”. When this failed they gave up the whole process of transformation.

    Now they’re a lot better than they used to be.

  88. February 3, 2009 at 7:25 PM | #88

    Trinidad,

    i did mean repress, which means, “to restrain or or prevent the expression or to inhibit the natural development or self-expression of someone.” Suppression means, “to restrain the development, action, expression and to inhibit.” So basically, they mean similar things.

    Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say, “Too many people associate discomfort with “harm”.” i am not clear on your intent.

    My experience with Exodus WAS harmful and when groups like that tell people they cannot be queer and be a Christian/serve G-D is a problem for me.

    i see you are gay. So, are you a Christian as well?

    Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

    Warm Regards,

    Adele

  89. February 4, 2009 at 7:17 PM | #89

    Sure,

    First let me say that I do not target you specifically. I am just addressing something I keep hearing over and over again that I suspect is a deliberate exaggeration (although not necessarily by the people who use it but rather by the people who coined the idea to begin with i.e. “struggling = harm”).

    What I mean is that “harm” is a loaded word that is often used to mean “discomfort” but deliberately rides on the coattails of its more sinister meaning. In other words, I felt really badly therefore I was harmed.

    Let us say that you (not you specifically) had entered a drug or alcohol rehabilitation program instead. You would almost certainly not have felt the same way. The reason for this is because you would have accepted that being an alcoholic or drug addict was not good for you and even if you failed, you would accept that you could try and try and try again.

    In the case of these “healing” programs, if you don’t accept deep down that their premise is right–even while going through the programs–then you will have a violent reaction to a rather simple agenda.
    But crying and feeling anguish about the topic is is not “harm”.

    The rational approach would be to leave and say: “It didn’t work for me.” or “That was not for me.”
    But why get angry? We have wide latitudes to shape our own worldviews.
    If you try something and you don’t get what you want you move on. If you were deceived into thinking you’d get something that they knew they’d never offer–fine. You would have been betrayed and that would be wrong.

    But if they have fooled themselves–in your opinion; or if your views on the matter change, then you just say to yourself that you no longer fit and leave. Why be bitter? Why yell “harm”! unless you feel deep inside a fear that they might be right?

    That said, I am no Exodus booster.
    Exodus is wiser now than they used to be by all accounts, but again, it is very possible that people may have been given unrealistic expectations about what could or could not be achieved.
    This might indeed have caused undue stress–but that is the human element as well.

    I don’t know that “the gay world” is any less oppressive and less hurtful than Exodus and others might have been in the past.
    In fact, large parts of the gay world are in crisis. We hardly live in a fine castle.

    I am a Seventh-Day Adventist Christian young man who has sexual attractions to other guys.

  90. February 4, 2009 at 7:41 PM | #90

    By the way, according to C.S. Lewis, something that is “repressed” does not show up as itself.
    In other words, a repressed sexual appetite for something will not show up as a sexual addiction for that same thing.

    It might show up as bad temper, or an eating problem etc.

    What he did was suppress his sexual feelings and that is not necessarily a bad thing in general. Many people who do not suppress their need to eat…well…just look at healthcare today. Loads of people who never could suppress a good burger!

  91. February 5, 2009 at 4:49 AM | #91

    Trinidad,

    i think the misinformation that churches and places like Exodus tell Christians is deceptive and harmful. i was committed to following Christ with all my heart and what was communicated was that being gay was wrong, sinful, and people go to hell who are gay. i felt guilt and stuck and no recourse but to pleas epeople and white knuckle it. i am not bitter, but rather feel free and joyful. i just get pissed because there are plenty of people like me who feel unable to just get up and leave. i FINALLY did come to that place in my journey. Sadly, some do not and they stay repressed, depressed, some live double lives, and some even commit suicide. The fear of coming out and dealing with repercussions of rejection and all otherreactions is too overwhelming to people.

    i see your Adventist denomination is against homosexuality. How have you reconciled your denominational affinity and your sexuality?

    Best,

    Adele

  92. August 21, 2009 at 2:55 AM | #92

    Adele and all,
    I noticed that all the resources listed are books from Amazon. Would you consider pointing to any free resources on the web? ( I have a little limitation of time, i.e, $$$).

    cheers,
    G

  93. August 23, 2009 at 2:08 AM | #93

    Gustavo,

    i have no idea where to send you for free resources on the web. i mainly gave Amazon as a reference for descriptions of the books. Are you near any progressive seminaries near you? Their libraries may have them.

    Sorry i can’t be of more assistance. Maybe someone else can help?

    Cheers,
    Adele

  1. January 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM | #1